Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, everyone. Thank you for tuning in to Weird World Adventures, the podcast. My name is Mallory and I'm here to show you just how weird this world of ours really is. For those who are joining us for the first time, Weird World Adventures is a brand with a focus on travel. Overall, though, our specialty lies in featuring the strangest and most unusual places around the world. We highlight myths, legends, belief systems and weird people living weird lives in a very celebratory and wonderful way. We also love to highlight other explorers and people that are doing really amazing things in this world.
As a proud weirdo myself, I'm happy to see the brand come to life. Be sure to watch Weird World Adventures on Amazon prime, our TV show, or visit MallorySadventures.com M A L O R I E S Adventures.com for more. Follow us on Instagram at Mallory's Adventures or or on Facebook at Weird World Adventures as your guide and host. I'm a board member in the Washington D.C. chapter of the Explorers Club and I'm a journalist with a specialty in mythology, folklore and the occult. We have a very exciting show for you today, so I'm ready to jump into that now. But first, I also wanted to apologize quickly because I have been very, very, very sick. So I think I sound a little.
A little under the weather in this, but my wonderful friend Nina really just brings the episode to life because she's incredible. So I really hope you enjoy and let's start the show.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Hello, hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Mallory's Weird World Adventures, the podcast. I'm your host, Mallory, and I'm here to show you just how wonderfully weird this world of ours really is. And I'm very excited to share with you guys today. I have my friend Nina Lanza here.
Nina and I connected at the Explorers Club this past year at ecad. So we're going to talk a little bit about her career and joining the Explorers Club and where that's taken her today. So thank you so much for joining me today, Nina.
[00:02:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to chat.
As you know, you are my favorite person that I met this year, so I'm really excited that we get to hang out a little bit more.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Yes. You're my favorite person too. I love that we. We met at the Norwegian party.
Yes.
[00:02:20] Speaker C: Because you always followed in a regions. Right. That's where the good times are. And the good people.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Exactly. They're so welcoming. And then you wind up in the special room with all the good stuff.
Yeah, that's how it works. So, Nina, I guess tell me about how you found out about the Explorers Club and your journey getting into the club.
[00:02:39] Speaker C: I, I actually didn't know about the Explorers Club until I found out about it from my cousin. He has been involved with the club for a very long time and so I had always heard about it from him. But at the, you know, when I first heard about it, I just, I wasn't sure what he was talking about. Honestly, it's hard to understand what this club is until you actually go there and meet people and, and, you know, experience it for yourself.
So, yeah, that was my, my first introduction to the club. I joined actually as a student. I was a graduate student and I gave one of my very first professional talks at the clubhouse. I think it was like I was terrified because I was like all these people who are so smart. I remember, in fact, E.O. wilson, the great biologist, was in the front row and I thought I was going to barf. It wasn't even like I was talking about biology. Okay. It was just that, like, he's a pretty smart person, you know, and I was, he was right there. He was very friendly. He didn't ask me any, you know, hard hitting questions. I was very grateful for that.
Yeah. So. So, you know, I was a student member for a while. I actually was not a member for a little while because I did a field season in Antarctica and it turns out at the time they were sending you your membership renewal notices by mail. And I didn't check my mail for two months.
And by the time I got back, I was like, dang. I guess I missed that renewal notice.
But it was okay. It was okay because at the time I think I had just sort of graduated from being a student status because I was just a new staff member.
So it was time to, it was time to change anyway. And so eventually I, I reapplied and I am now a fellow.
And, you know, it's been essentially continuous. Yeah. For, for that time. I'm trying to, I was trying to remember when I actually was a student member. And that was, it had to have been like 2005. I mean, it was a while.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Wow.
So why were you in Antarctica? I have to hear about Antarctica a little bit because I, you know, I love penguins and I've never, never seen the big penguins down there. Did you see any penguins?
[00:04:54] Speaker C: I did. I got to see a whole bunch of Adelie penguins.
So I was mostly actually on the interior. So I went to Antarctica and as part of a project called the Antarctic Search for Meteorites, or ansmet. And as you might imagine, we go there to pick up meteorites from the ice. It turns out that 60% of the known meteoritic material in the world has been collected by this project, which has been operating more or less continuously for something like 45 years. Wow. So it's an incredible project.
But you might ask, what do you do? Well, we actually literally just drive around on our snow machines and find rocks, because there aren't a lot of rocks on the ice sheet and most of those are meteorites.
So we spent a total of six weeks living in tents on the ice, and we were right in between McMurdo and Pole Station. So that's, I think, qualifies as the middle of nowhere.
Wow. So, yeah, very, very isolated, as you might imagine. Not a lot of Internet or phone or any other connectivity.
We, of course, stayed in very good touch with McMurdo for safety reasons, but, you know, it's the most isolated I've ever been from my, from my real life. And it was very, it was very interesting, a very interesting experience. Yeah. I definitely wasn't getting snail mail, though. We were not getting communication.
[00:06:25] Speaker B: Wow.
And, yeah, deli penguins, they're little jerks. I love, I love all, but they're, they're like kind of like the savages of the penguin world.
[00:06:35] Speaker C: I mean, they definitely judged me. I didn't see them being savage, but, like, I saw some at McMurdo.
They were just like, on a little iceberg by the shore, and I was so excited to see them that I was just, like, laughing and laughing. I mean, I wasn't doing anything to them, but my laughter totally alienated them.
I feel like they gave me a look and I'm like, whatever, we're going back into the sea. And they swam away because I laughed too much. I felt very judged, but, you know, you know, I was just so excited to see them.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Right.
That's wild. You know, we, I spent.
My, My isolation period was nowhere near as exciting as that, but I spent quite a bit of time on Robben island off of the coast of South Africa with African penguins, and we would drive around and look for penguins. So, so it was, like, kind of similar, but not. But I, I, I.
There was no access on and off the island regularly, so it was my period of, well, I'm just going to be on an island with penguins.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: That doesn't sound bad, honestly. That sounds great. I mean, and if the penguins judge you, you know, you just got to work harder, I guess. You Know.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. They're pretty. They're African penguins are pretty chill. They. They do get a little aggressive sometimes because it's Africa and everything wants to kill them. So they're more like little ninjas than some of the South American penguins. But it was.
[00:07:54] Speaker C: Well, I feel like the ant. The Antarctic penguins don't even know that things on the land can eat them. Right. They don't.
[00:07:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:59] Speaker C: Fear the land at all, because nothing is there. It turns out they're not wrong. Except for us, of course.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: I worked with scientists that had been to Antarctica with penguins, and they're like, you know, you can just walk right up to them over in the Arctic and. And, you know, they don't care unless you, like, actually start manhandling them. That otherwise, if you walk over, they're like, what's up?
Because they're just not used to people being in their sphere.
[00:08:22] Speaker C: That's exactly right. You know, but of course, you know, unless you are, you know, a biologist with a permit doing that, you are absolutely forbidden from touching the.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:08:32] Speaker C: However, if they touch you, if they choose to touch you, that's okay. So, you know, I. You know, if I had been able to keep my absolute mirth to myself, you know, it's still a dream in my heart that someday a penguin will choose to touch me with their little, you know, flappy wing.
It didn't happen. It didn't happen that time. That's. That's on me.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: We were. I think my craziest penguin story is that we were. When we were on Robben island, you know, we were obviously permitted to handle the penguins, and they're. They're very endangered. So we were working to try to, you know, monitor their civilization on Robben Island. And the babies, if you, you know, weigh them and just check and make sure that they're healthy. If you. Usually there's around two of them that are together, and if you're measuring one, the other one will actually, like, brood under you, like you're the mom.
So you kind of just under you, and it, like, burrows under you and just kind of hangs out. And then you swap them out.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: I love them.
How in the world do they get so cute? Exactly. Little puffball. You're so lucky.
That's amazing. Very jealous.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: But I guess let's continue on with, I guess, further into your career.
So can you tell us a little bit about what you do now? Because I. I'm not gonna even tease it, because I just want you to say it from your end, because you tell everybody at the club. And they're like, what? What do you mean? Do you have the coolest job of anybody I know? I think.
[00:09:56] Speaker C: Well, I think, I think so too. I mean, so, I mean, if I were to summarize, I would say that I shoot lasers from a spaceship on Mars. But to be a little bit more specific, I am lucky enough to work on not one, but two different Mars rover projects. I work on the Curiosity rover and also the Perseverance rover. So these are fraternal twins.
And I have a larger role with Curiosity because I lead an instrument that is on the rover. And the instrument is called ChemCam.
And we have a sister instrument that I also work on on Perseverance called Supercam. And they're very similar instruments, although not identical, just like the rovers.
So, yeah, my, my job is to help to zap rocks on Mars to see what they're made out of, and then try to interpret the geologic history of that planet from the chemistry that we get.
So if you don't mind me getting a little bit nerdy, I could tell you a little more about my instrument.
So the laser part is something called laser induced Breakdown spectroscopy, or libs. So the way this works is that we can focus the laser spot at a distance up to 7 meters, or 23ft away from the rover, and we actually vaporize a little material. It's very, very hot in this little tiny spot, which is under a millimeter in diamet, so it's hotter than the sun. Momentarily, we vaporize this material, and as that material cools back down, it will emit photons at characteristic wavelengths. So what that means is we can look at that little bright flash of light from that vaporized material and we can figure out what elements are in that rock. And we never have to touch the rock, although we would dearly love to touch those rocks. But they are pretty far. So that is how ChemCam works. The Chem part of the CamCam, we also have a camera where we can take an image of where we actually shot so we get some geologic context for that chemistry. So we can say, hey, we, we vaporized a little bit of this bright crystal here, and that has a different composition than the dark crystal right next door. And that can really give us some really detailed information about the rocks that we are driving past.
So that's what we do. That's we do every day.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: That's amazing.
And what's, I guess the most exciting thing that, that you've seen or found in, in your work?
[00:12:31] Speaker C: I cannot, I cannot pick A single discovery. You know, because we have learned so much. So just for context, Curiosity has been roving the surface of Mars for almost 13 Earth years now. Perseverance has been roving for about four years. You know, not as long, but still quite some time. So, you know, we have learned so much since these missions began.
I would say if I can just be a little self serving, you know, I, I'm really excited about a particular discovery that I made.
I actually was the first to notice that there were, there's very high abundances of manganese in the rocks on Mars. You're like, who cares, right? Who cares about manganese? Well, let me tell you why you care.
Manganese is a really interesting element that often just follows iron.
And like iron, it can get, it has different redox states, so it can actually bond differently with different elements depending on the environmental conditions. And so manganese is a great indicator for environmental conditions.
And so it's a big marker on Earth for the rise of photosynthesis about 2.3 billion years ago. And that's because photosynthetic creatures, cyanobacteria, put a whole bunch of oxygen in the atmosphere and totally caused this incredible crisis because before then there was no oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere.
So, you know, all of a sudden all these new minerals started forming, including these manganese rich minerals. So, so in Earth and the geologic record, it's very closely tied with this event. That's not the only way you could make these things. But that's, that's one of the reasons it's so interesting to geologists like myself. Well, we don't expect that on Mars because there's just not that much oxygen in the atmosphere. And why would there be? Anyway, so when we found these rocks that had a lot of manganese in them, we had to ask the question, how the heck did that happen?
And you know, even now I'm not totally sure we have all the answers, but it definitely opens up the existence of environments on Mars that we never thought were possible before. We know there had to have been really strongly oxidizing conditions beyond which we have today. Right? They're not there today. And there had to have been a lot of liquid water because we had to release that manganese from, from the igneous minerals in which they are mostly locked up.
So, you know, for me, that's been like an incredible, you know, that was an incredible journey. You know, I, I started that work when I was, gosh, I must have been, I was still a graduate student, I think, and it's really changed our understanding of the history of Mars in a lot of ways. But of course, there are so many other things I could talk about, too. I'm just being selfish and talking about my research because that's super exciting for me.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: That's amazing. Congratulations.
[00:15:30] Speaker C: Thanks, thanks. Well, team effort, of course. I know a lot of people work in this.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: Congratulations to the whole team.
Wow. That's incredible. So if someone wanted to become a planetary geologist, how, how does that even start? I guess where, where, how. How did that come into your mind and, and what journey did you take to get there?
[00:15:52] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. Well, yeah, there's not a straightforward path. Right. I didn't know that that existed. I really wanted to study space, so as an undergraduate, I majored in astronomy, which was essentially physics.
It took me a little while to figure out. I'm like, oh, if you want to study a planet that's made out of rocks, you should know something about rocks, you know, So I had never really taken geology until I went to grad school, so I thought I'd just, you know, jump in the deep end there.
Yeah, I mean, but there was all kinds of planets, right? So not every planet is made out of rocks.
Mars certainly is a rocky planet, but there are other planets in the solar system that are made of ices or gases. So, you know, depending on what, what type of planets you're interested in, you know, that'll focus your. Your direction.
Yeah. But for me, I was like, oh, I guess I need to know about rocks. So, you know, because I realized I really, I've always been fascinated by Mars because of the science fiction aspect. Right. It's a planet that has loomed large in literature.
It's a place where we were so convinced 100 years ago that there was definitely life.
Thinking of the canals that Percival Lowell claimed to observe.
And of course, we know that's not the case anymore, but it still is one of those places where it's so earthlike, initially, when you look at these images, that you could envision yourself standing there. And that's more so than many other planets. So that was what originally drove me. I want to know more about this place, this amazing place.
And so I learned about rocks, and then I got lucky enough to meet my PhD advisor who was joining up with this crazy instrument that was going to fly in the next rover. At the time, that was Curiosity. And he's like, hey, do you want to, do you want to join on this mission? He didn't have to ask me twice. So I was able to work on ChemCam throughout my PhD, and that was before it ever was even been built, before we even launched.
So I think I got really lucky there. I did not know how to do that. So if somebody asked me, like, what's the recipe? How do you do this? I'd say, I have no idea. But just, you know, there will always be opportunities, and don't be afraid to take them and to learn something new. And you might be surprised by, you know, the direction it takes you.
You know, I didn't have a whole plan, but I feel like it worked out. It worked out pretty well.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: That's a great lesson. I feel like going through open doors is always a good start. And I feel like that's a defining characteristic of a lot of Explorers Club members is the, there isn't that fear of, maybe I shouldn't go and do this. It's just a, yeah, let's go. And having that drive to, to try new things and to, to do what you, you know, what you want to do and explore new areas of life without that fear, it's a very wonderful trait to have.
[00:18:39] Speaker C: Well, you know, it's not to say there's no fear, though. I bet you, you would agree with this too. Like, sometimes you're like, oh, gosh, like, I don't really know what I'm doing. Like, is this a bad idea?
And sometimes, I mean, sometimes it's a bad idea. Okay. But like, a lot of times we are afraid of uncertainty. And of course, uncertainty, the unknown is, is inherently unsettling.
But as you say, you know, that is also the joy of exploration when you, when you see something new, you learn something new. It's.
There's nothing like that in the world where you're like, oh my gosh, like, I think I've learned something that nobody else knows or I've seen something that no one else has seen.
And of course, I, I think it's really important to complete the loop. Now you've seen this, you've learned this. Now you need to bring it back so that others can also learn and see too, because that's, that's part of what we do, you know, in, in science. And I think exploration is just a type of, of science that we're doing, you know, and so that, that bringing it back, you know, but it's not to say that we're not afraid or like, we're like, oh, you know, what we're doing. I, I don't think, you know, a lot of times I'm just pulling a Thread of my curiosity and seeing where it takes me.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yes. I guess it's maybe like, not letting fear stop you.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, like, maybe. Here, I'll. Let me. If I can. I'll just. This is a. So I told you about manganese, why it's so cool. But you know why I actually started it? It's because. Okay, so I was a grad student and I had submitted an abstract for a meeting, and I was like, oh, man. Like, I haven't actually taken any data. And I'm supposed to present this poster. I have these rocks, but I don't have time to prepare them. So I'm just gonna, like, shoot through the surface and then, you know, throw away the first data.
You know, with this laser. Right. We're vaporizing a little bit each time we go, so we can kind of get beneath thin coatings.
And so these rocks came from the southwestern United States. And so, like many rocks, they were covered in this shiny dark coating, which is rock varnish, which is very high in manganese. Turns out, I did not know that at the time, but so, like, you know, I took all these data and I didn't even, like, I was just like, I'm just gonna put them on this poster and not worry about it. And I realized as I was looking at it, I was like, oh, my gosh. You know, you can actually see, see the transition between this rock varnish, which at the time I was like, I don't want this, and the rock underneath, which was a basalt. And that got me thinking. I was like, well, that's interesting. Can we, can we, can we see how can we identify coatings, like, if we wanted to? Because most of the time, geologists will cut those off.
But, but then I was like, oh, maybe. Maybe this is interesting. And it turns out, you know, we don't prepare rocks on Mars. They just come as they are, and they often have rock coatings.
And just because I was like, kind of a, you know, I was, I was slow to prepare for this conference, but it actually launched this whole, you know, series of laboratory experiments that I started doing again just, just as a grad student. I didn't think it was going to lead anywhere. And then when we saw high manganese on Mars, all of a sudden I was the person who knew the most about it because I had done these experiments that weren't considered important until they were, you know, and so just like, again, pulling that thread, I, I, we could also learn from this that procrastination is valuable. I don't know if we want to say that, you know, but like, you know, sometimes doing things and just sort of like seeing where an observation takes you and not worrying too much about the destination is incredibly. Is incredibly insightful. It leads to understanding that you wouldn't have if you were just like, I'm going to get from point A to point B, and we're not going to get distracted. Being distracted can actually be really helpful.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: And the ability to play, I guess, to have that curiosity and want to know more, even if it's not exactly related to what you're doing in the moment.
[00:22:27] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly, because we, we always think, oh, we're gonna. You better be really focused if you want to be successful. And, I mean, there's some truth to that. But also, where do insights come from? Where do innovations come from? You've got to tread paths that others have not yet trod. You know, you have to do things that are new. And how do you do that? You can't just be like, I'm going to make a discovery today. Right. You have to be open to just, you know, what observations come your way and be willing to think about them.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Definitely. And I, I think that's, again, I mean, going back to just a great characteristic of an explorer and a scientist. The world is so catered to give us what we. What is the easiest path to something all the time. You know, technology is very set to what's the easiest way to get from point A to point B. And we become so used to that that we kind of put that in our comfort zone. And then anything that takes us a different path or anything that makes us have to step out of our comfort zone and try something new can be very intimidating.
And I think that ability to know that and to step out of your comfort zone and be comfortable or at least embrace the uncomfortability of moving on a different path sometimes is very important.
[00:23:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. I feel like that advice is kind of, like, scary, right? Because there's no guarantees there either, you know, But I kind of like thinking, you know, maybe it's. It's not so much you will end up places you never thought you would end up, and with successes that you never imagined, you know, if you are, you know, again, I would say, true to your curiosity and passion, you know?
You know, I guess it depends if you, if you really want to, you know, occupy a particular role, then maybe don't do this. But sometimes if you're open, you know, because again, I never knew how I was going to end up where I Am now. I don't know if you, if you had a vision for yourself as a, as a youth, if you thought, you know, this is where you were going to end up.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: Never, never in a million years.
[00:24:27] Speaker C: Well, it's great though, right? Like if you could go back in time and like tell your childhood self, they'd be like, nah, no way.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: There have been so many times that something has happened in my life where I wish I could go back and tell my young self. Like, we just did this. Can you believe it?
[00:24:42] Speaker C: We Totally. Exactly. Because you carry them with you, right? Our, all of our past selves are there in our, in our minds, right? And they are all part of our experience.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: Definitely. I have to, I have to ask you too, because you talked about your fascination with Mars and are there any elements of sci fi or sci fi stories that inspired you when you were younger that made you interested?
[00:25:02] Speaker C: Well, you know, my parents, being enormous nerds themselves, had a huge science fiction collection. And so it was sort of the classics now, right? A lot of Asimov, you know, that, that generation. And so, you know, I would just pull things off the shelf and read those things.
I'm trying to remember, like the iRobot kind of whole series, you know, was really, I remember that being really fascinating for me.
Just the idea that, you know, we can envision a future that is different from what is today felt to me as inherently hopeful. And I think that classic sci fi is like that, you know, there's a lot of dystopian sci fi, you know, but that's, that tends to be newer. Right?
Because of course, you know, technology can be a double edged sword, so, so can knowledge sometimes. But I feel like I read a lot of that earlier sci fi that my parents had, you know, like the foundation series, all of that, you know, that really was hopeful. And I, I still maintain that, you know, discovery is hopeful, you know, even if we don't totally understand what it all means and we don't know how it can be used and misused, you know, that, that it's still something that is inherently, you know, positive.
So yeah, I think that was, that was probably, you know, that.
And you know, of course I, I always, my parents took me to all kinds of events in Boston and so my, my first time, everything about space was when they took me to see a lecture probably at Boston University. I can't remember. I was, you know, seven. It was when Halley's comet came around the last time. And so I don't remember the lecture. I'm not Gonna lie. I was a kid, I think I was probably like, whatever. But I do remember going on the roof and looking through a Telesco, seeing this comet and it was just like shocking to me. What is that? And I realized, yeah, you know, the sky is not just a dome, it's actually three dimensional space.
And there are things out there and they're moving around. We don't even know half of it. And so like, you know, I just was like, there's nothing more interesting to me than figuring out what's out there. I mean, there's just. We know so little about the universe and it's so huge and there's so much to know. And so I still feel like that today. Right. You know, many, many years later.
[00:27:25] Speaker B: I think it was put in perspective for me a couple of years ago when I was, I was doing a meditation workshop and they had something with, with like just the map of the universe that they showed everybody and you know, the whole like Laniakea, like the super cluster, whatever it is, and just like how tiny our universe is and this gigantic spectrum and just, just the perspective shift of how small we are, it's, you know, millions of times smaller than you think it would be. When you kind of see the perspective of, oh, this is like what our supercluster looks like of galaxies and it just. Look, perspective they can give you is insane.
[00:28:04] Speaker C: It is. And I think for a lot of people, you know, I've heard a lot of people, it's terrifying, which I can see that perspective, like I am so meaningless, like I am not even a moat of dust. But it's also, I mean, tell me if this rings true to you. You know, I think it's in some ways very comforting because all of our problems, no matter how large, they're very small too. So that's actually the benefit where we're like, you know, if you zoom out to that perspective, it really says, hey, no matter what you're struggling with now, you know, it's not that it's not important, but like, let's, let's put it in this cosmic perspective and, and, and we are small. And that's okay. That's okay. And you know, of course our lives as we live them are not small. Right. We live our lives on a human scale, and rightly so, but it's so nice to be able to kind of zoom out a little bit and be like, okay, but how important is this thing? That's super irritating to me right now. It's not, it's not at all.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: It's true. I used, I used space a lot when I was meditating heavily to put that perspective. Like, okay, you know, this is my world, but it's actually this tiny and this problem is very small. And it'll be resolved.
[00:29:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's comforting. I think that is, you know, even if it can be a little unnerving, you know, Although I think that's what drives people away from space science. They're like, oh, like too big.
Well, and that's part of the reason why I think Mars is so great, because it's very like human scale in a lot of ways. What we study is at the human scale.
So, you know, we have, you know, rocks that you could pick up.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: So actually, based on what we're talking about right now, I just read this today and it seems very relevant.
40 genetically identical adolescent female mice were placed in a space filled with appealing toys. For three months, their every movement was recorded. The result, Some mice turned out to be explorers, others homebodies. And there was huge personality variations. And they seem to be linked to the variations in the earliest experiences which were then amplified over time. A behavioral geneticist concluded that it's not genes or their rearing environment that make the difference. Rather it's the path dependent response to initial serendipity or randomness.
[00:30:19] Speaker C: Oh my goodness.
Wow. Wow. I mean, you know, I mean, that tells you a lot of things, right? So like your genes aren't your destiny. I mean, we know that too, right? Right, we.
But still, like, that's amazing to observe that that's an experiment. Of course you can't or you should not do with people, you know, but it doesn't, you know, even if the environment in which you were raised, you know, it's, it's not that like it's so interesting to, you know, serendipity in your life is critical, absolutely critical. And I wonder if there's a way, you know, maybe for mice, they aren't as attuned to serendipity as a concept, but as human beings, you know, maybe this is a lesson for us that we can actually truly change our life experience if we allow serendipity a place in our journey at every step of the way, not just, you know, right at the beginning.
I love that.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: It's great. And you know, the, it goes kind of back to the nature versus nurture. And you're, you're always nurturing yourself. There's always room for growth and development and change, and it's never easy, but it's Possible.
[00:31:35] Speaker C: I love that you're always nurturing yourself. That's beautiful. That is. That's true. We should be doing that, right? Oh, my gosh.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Definitely.
Oh, my gosh. Well, I wanted to also kind of move the conversation a bit to ECAD because we're, we're getting, getting out of the chaos of ecad I'm still recovering and I wanted to ask first about your very first experience to ECAD and what that was like for you.
[00:32:01] Speaker C: Oh, goodness. My first ECAMM was a long.
Yeah, well, it was a long time ago.
I mean, it was like, I want to say it must have been 2005.
And so again, I was very young. I was a grad student and it was at the Waldorf Astoria, so it was way in a totally different place.
I mean, I'll just say I remember being so intimidated by every person that I met, you know, at the time, I, you know, I just felt like obviously I didn't belong there because I was such a little exploration newbie, Right. I mean, I was barely scratching the surface of this Mars data. You know, I wasn't working on the rovers. This is before.
Was it even like. Yeah, it was before I was even working on. On any of the. Even the idea of this rover.
And so the people that I met, they were just doing so many things that were just, like, amazing, you know, I wish I can. You know, this was obviously, it's 10 years ago and I'm not sure I can even remember. It was just such a blur to me.
And at that time, ECAD was a lot longer.
Maybe there's pros and cons to that that all the awardees got to give these pretty long speeches, you know, and yeah, it did make for a long evening, but also really fascinating evening because you got to hear about the accomplishments in a little more detail. And of course, ECAD now they do that, but separately from the dinner, right? So you can go and hear about the awardees, you know, and then the. The ceremony is separate.
But I remember that I'm just like, oh, my gosh. The people who are on this stage are just things they have done.
I wish I could be more specific. I think I was just really overwhelmed and really intimidated by it. And I certainly did not feel like, you know, I was. How do I say this? I don't know if worthy. Nobody made me feel bad. Right. Everybody. In fact, one of the things that I remember clearly is that people were interested in hearing about my research, you know, even though at the time, this is when I was A master's student. I wasn't even a PhD student. I was like, I'm doing this little project about gullies on Mars. True story. That's what I did my master's on. You know, everyone knows what a gully is. Well, there's a bunch of them on Mars. And I mapped everyone in the Northern hemisphere.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:34:22] Speaker C: But, you know. Yeah. I mean, you know, maybe not. Not the best party conversation, but I felt like people cared. People absolutely cared. And that was surprising to me.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:32] Speaker C: So that was my very, very first introduction. It was an amazing experience.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: What was. Did they. Did they have any of the crazy appetizers the year you were there? Were they very different from what they are now?
[00:34:45] Speaker C: Well, they did it differently. They had the same. They called it, like the exotics buffet. And they mostly.
I think it was in one area, but they had different rooms in the hotel dedicated to different levels of tickets. So depending on the level of ticket you had, you would, you know, get something different. Oh, and I'm. I don't think that I. Again, like, I was so young and overwhelmed. I don't think I really did a lot of exploring to see, you know, what was going on. It was very different. I think it's now it's. It's nice because people are together.
I think the venue allows for that a lot more. Whereas, you know, when you're. You're in a hotel, I mean, it's just. It's a very different.
Obviously, things are compartmentalized a little bit more. So I really like that, you know, we. We are kind of all. All mingling together.
But, yes, there was. There was exotics. I remember my friend ate a tarantula. And that's how we discovered that tarantula hairs have a little, like, anesthetic in it. Like, it numbs. Numb your mouth.
She's like, oh, my gosh. The habit.
Be careful when eating the tarantula. I would really recommend just, like, if you're gonna do it, don't eat the hair. Because it turns out that the. The hairs. And it's not. It's not poisonous or bad for you. It just. It's a little. It can be uncomfortable if you're sensitive to it. And she. Indeed, she was.
[00:36:17] Speaker B: It's been on my bucket list to eat a tarantula. It's kind of like my Everest, because I hate them so much. Like, I just.
So it's like a power thing. Like, I want to eat this. But, you know, they never. They never have. They don't have a lot of them there anymore, and you have to get there really early. And then this year, we got there right at the start, and they still didn't have any this year that were edible.
They just had display ones. And I was like, oh, dang.
[00:36:39] Speaker C: Display ones. Ugh. Yeah. No, I mean, like, you know, I think you're already the boss of tarantulas, okay? You'll be like. You just look them in their 1 million eyes and you're like, I could eat you. Okay? But I'm not. I'm choosing not to. Because you're choosing to be benevolent.
[00:36:54] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:55] Speaker C: So, yeah, you're already the boss. You're already the tarantula boss, so I wouldn't. I wouldn't worry about it.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: Although I saw a spider in my garage the other day and freaked out, so I'm still learning that lesson.
[00:37:05] Speaker C: I mean, you know, remember, you. You just tell it. You just shake your fist at it and say, I'm the boss of you. I could crush you right now.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: Right? And I did eat the scorpion, which is like, you know, another arachnid. So we'll do that. We'll be fine.
[00:37:16] Speaker C: I think that counts. I think that counts. And that one's like. I mean, you probably have to look out for the stinger part, right? Hopefully. Or do they remove that?
[00:37:22] Speaker B: They remove that. I mean, it's still there, but I guess they remove the part. That would be dangerous and sharp. And it's good. It's kind of weird because it. It tastes you. You kind of taste the excess. The exoskeleton. Like, it's. It's kind of like gets in your teeth. You're like, oh, this is. This is an interesting feeling.
[00:37:41] Speaker C: It's why. It's not usually something that we. You know, it's not. It's not common, you know, for, you know, holiday dinners or something. You know, it's the exoskeleton. It gets you. Gets you every time.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: Exactly.
And I guess this year. This year at ECAD we got to meet, which was so just. It was just very magical.
[00:38:02] Speaker C: It was magical.
[00:38:03] Speaker B: It was. And I have the chicken. I have to tell you. Are we allowed to see a secret chicken or.
[00:38:08] Speaker C: Yes. No.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: This.
[00:38:09] Speaker C: Not a secret chicken, though. A weird chicken. Yep. Yep.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: And I. I just booked my final episode of season two of Weird World for Amazon prime, and we're going to Iceland, and we're going to hunt for mystical elves and go to the penis museum. I think I told you that.
And going inside a volcano. And this guy's gonna come with us.
[00:38:32] Speaker C: I'm so excited for. For the chicken's journey, and I can't wait, you know, I mean, it's your journey, too. I'm excited for you. But, like, frankly, the chicken has. Has been, you know, fewer places, so I think it's gonna, you know, really enrich its existence.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: Exactly. He's gonna learn all about the Yule cat. Do you know anything about Icelandic culture? Because it's really a trip. It's a wild experience to get to go to Iceland and experience that culture.
[00:38:54] Speaker C: I mean, so I. I bet you know more about the culture than I do. I have been. In fact, I've been to Iceland four times, but I go there from, like, a geologic perspective. So, like, because it is a geologic wonderland there, there's just so many incredible textbook things that you can see there in a really small area.
And so that's always been sort of the focus of my.
My journey. I did notice. I was very delighted to see all the fairy houses that people had. Like, I had read about that. I was like, oh, no, this is legit. I don't think. This is just like, garden decor. This is real.
So, you know, and of course, interacting with Icelanders, they are hilariously stoic, which, you know, makes sense maybe for where they are, but I don't think I know as much. I'm sure you can tell. Tell everybody a lot more about the lore.
You know, it's the.
[00:39:50] Speaker B: My favorite lore from Iceland. They're all about the elves, as you know, and the fairies. And there are a series of elves. There's 13 of them for the holiday season that are effectively like Christmas elves that come out, but they were told to, like, scare children. So they're the Yule lads and Gryla, the witch in the woods, is their mother. And each one does something particularly strange.
That is. It was. It was back in probably the. You know, several centuries ago. It was an important lesson to teach kids that you can't leave your food out because, you know, animals will wander into the house. So, you know, if you do this and you leave out your bowl, then bowl liquor is going to come and lick your bowl and take it from you. And so it was like these strange things that these little elves would do. So there was like, bowl liquor, and there's one that would take your sausage. It's called sausage swiper.
[00:40:40] Speaker C: Rude.
[00:40:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And meat hook that uses a meat hook to steal your meat. And there's window paper.
[00:40:47] Speaker C: Menacing. Yes, that's menacing. Okay.
[00:40:50] Speaker B: It's. It's quite a very amusing and interesting. I Mean, just culture of elves and, and the, the holiday season there is my favorite because they also have the Yule cat, which you know, is like an angry giant cat that goes around and eats people that don't wear their Christmas clothes.
[00:41:05] Speaker C: Oh, dang. Yeah. No, don't forget your ugly sweater because I mean, that's, that feels believable. Yeah, cats are pretty. I mean, I love them, but it.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: Could happen just this gigantic, like giant sized cat wandering Iceland. So there's just the, the beliefs with the elves and that. It's just so fascinating to me. And we did like a special on it for last, last Christmas where you know, all the Yule lads and you know, the thirteen days of Christmas and there's a Yule lad each day.
[00:41:37] Speaker C: Wow, that's amazing. Well, so what now? Now the question remains, what are they going to think of the chicken? Like elves and chicken, like have they, have they.
What would happen? Like, I don't know if we can really call the chicken a tradition yet, but like, you know, right.
[00:41:52] Speaker B: It's like close to their size. Right. So they might feel like it's one of them or they could be intimidated by it.
[00:41:59] Speaker C: Maybe you got to get an ugly Christmas sweater just to be safe.
[00:42:02] Speaker B: Definitely. Now I'm gonna find a little mini one. We're gonna get like a Ken sweater, the Barbie skin sweater, and stick it on him. Yes. For Christmas.
[00:42:10] Speaker C: It's gonna look amazing.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: And.
[00:42:12] Speaker C: Well, did we ever.
Oh no, but I was gonna say, did we ever tell you like where that came from? Like where did the, did we tell you the, the chicken origin story?
[00:42:21] Speaker B: I, I heard it, but please tell everyone. I think it's a fascinating story. I want to hear it again.
[00:42:25] Speaker C: I mean, I don't know how fascinating, but yet another ecad, you know.
So I guess I'll try to tell it in a linear way because I kind of came into the middle of this and I just absconded with the chicken. But this little chicken was brought to the dinner by a woman who I don't think I actually met, but she, her mission in life is to bring joy to others. And she does that with bringing fun and silly things everywhere she goes. So like silly hats and like glasses and little props like this chicken, this tiny rubber chicken, you know, because I think from my understanding, you know, she was struggling with a chronic health condition and it was really making it hard for her to find joy in her life. And so she decided to be really deliberate about it and to try to, you know, make it a collaboration with everyone she meets and Say, is this silly? Look at this thing. Like, who, who doesn't think it's funny to see a rubber chicken? You know?
And so she had distributed some of these silly things to other people and that another club member ended up with this chicken. And I, I had to have this chicken. I don't know if that's, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm trying to steal the joy for myself, but I was like, I need this chicken. And I, I actually did not know. I don't know, I don't know who, I didn't know who he was. This is how we met.
And I was like, where did this chicken come from? Like, and it turns out, like, there's a picture, official picture of him before we encountered each other. And it was in his, like, jacket pocket. I was like, there's where the, there's the origin of the chicken. But then it turns out he wasn't even the origin it came from, came from one step before. So we decided this had to be like an e cat adventure chicken because, you know, it's been, it's been going on a journey.
So he actually got a few more. So now you have like chicken, part de return of chicken.
And I'm really excited that this chicken is now going to like, fulfill its destiny to not only travel, but also to bring joy wherever it goes. Because honestly, you can't see this folks who are listening, but it is a pretty funny looking chicken. It is super silly. And honestly, I would laugh and have questions if I saw that anywhere. Anywhere.
[00:44:41] Speaker B: Yeah, he's gonna go with me to Iceland. And then when I come back from Iceland, I, I'm a crazy person and I overbook myself. And when I come back from Iceland, that same day, I'm driving to Charlotte for a comic con. So I'm going to be speaking at a ComicCon and he's going to be at my table with me. So.
[00:44:57] Speaker C: Amazing. Amazing. Oh, my gosh. Bringing joy everywhere.
[00:45:01] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:45:02] Speaker C: Across the world.
[00:45:04] Speaker B: Definitely that.
[00:45:06] Speaker C: See, I knew you were the right person. It was your destiny too, to, to take the chicken.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: It felt like a magical moment. I was like this, like, I, I, I'm so proud to.
On this journey.
[00:45:18] Speaker C: See, I appreciate the moment that I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you something crazy. I'm like, this is gonna sound crazy and I know we just met. Yeah. You know, one second. But like, I think you're the, you're the one and you are. I, I truly believe that. So thank you, thank you for going on the chicken journey.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: Thank you for trusting me with the chicken. I feel so honored.
And I guess before. Before we call it here, too, I. We have to. We have to talk about the nuggets. Because really, after a successful fulfilling ecad, you have to end with nuggets.
[00:45:48] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah. You got to.
[00:45:51] Speaker B: And I feel like maybe the highlight or the definitely, maybe, maybe not the highlight of my week was really getting really excited by those nuggets and yelling in Josh Gates space that we had to get nuggets.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: I mean, it's just. It is required. It's required. Yeah, the nuggets are required. I mean, it was. It's a. You know, it's. It's. I understand. It's just one of those things where if you. If you stay up late, stay up late enough, you're going to get hungry again, you know, and you don't want. I mean, maybe you should eat a salad, but you don't want a salad. You want nuggets. You want chicken nuggets. That's the. The taste of your childhood. The engineered food. Stuff that tastes amazing. Makes you feel terrible eventually, but, like, it tastes amazing. It's all fatty, it's all fried.
And, you know, I just can't think of a better way to, you know, finish off an ecad than with something that's so delightful and just simply enjoyable. And, you know, we're not worrying about.
We're not worrying about anything. We're just enjoying having like a powwow.
[00:46:57] Speaker B: Circle.
Yeah. With nuggets.
[00:47:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:01] Speaker C: I wasn't sure we were gonna make it happen this time in, but, you know, it was a real journey trying to get nuggets out of this. This McDonald's. But we did it through our pleasure.
[00:47:13] Speaker B: It was a weird that we had to go to a couple McDonald's.
[00:47:16] Speaker C: Yeah, like. Well, it's a weird time of day to get any. Any McDonald's you think some people would be getting up maybe, you know, it's pretty early.
Yeah, I think. I think this. We. We had a sympathy nugget from these folks because this guy was like, he. I saw him turn away other people, but he's like, okay, whatever, Right? I'll give you some nuggets. And I was like, great. I appreciate it.
Oh, good.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: You know, it was a highlight sitting around, you know, the hotel, the really, really nice fancy hotel and our really nice fancy dresses, just having some nuggets on the floor.
[00:47:50] Speaker C: Yeah, we're classy. We're classy like that.
[00:47:53] Speaker B: We are. And also, I guess I should say I came home with my penis, Gord. It's behind me right now. I don't know if you can see it, but, I mean, everything's blurred back there. But my travel office, it's like the centerpiece there right now.
[00:48:03] Speaker C: I can see it's sort of pixelated, out of focus. I can feel the vibe. It's amazing. It's such a. It's so beautiful. I'm so impressed that you found it in the, in the catalog of things to bid on and that you want it. It was just outstanding.
[00:48:20] Speaker B: When I went to pick it up, the woman literally said, oh, we know about the penis, Gord. You're the one that got it.
[00:48:26] Speaker C: Like, you're like, yes. And I am that fabulous. So congratulations. That was a real. That was a real coup.
[00:48:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:35] Speaker C: I was disappointed, of course, not to see the, the meat tenderizer back in the mix.
That had been my, my. I was like, maybe I'll try to get this ridiculous meat tenderizer, but so many other people had seen it and it became a thing and it, you know, I like a joke, but, like, honestly, I'm not gonna. It was like, it went for like five thousand dollars and I was like, I'm not gonna buy a five thousand dollar meat tenderizer. But I'm really happy that the club was able to raise those funds definitely, so that they can, you know, you know, like, and somebody has really tender meat now, hopefully, right?
[00:49:10] Speaker B: And the, The. The penis gourd happened because last year I really wanted the crystal dagger and they didn't have it this year. And by the time I put my, I would have won it. And I was putting my bid in and I just waited till the last second like, yeah, I'm gonna slip in and get it. But then I had to enter my information and I didn't give myself enough time.
[00:49:26] Speaker C: Oh, no.
[00:49:27] Speaker B: I know.
[00:49:28] Speaker C: Oh, tricky, tricky.
[00:49:29] Speaker B: That regret led to this.
[00:49:32] Speaker C: No, but this is. This is even better. This is even better.
Congratulations. You did it.
[00:49:38] Speaker B: Yay. We made it. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Nina. It's lovely to talk to you like always.
[00:49:44] Speaker C: It's been so great. Thank you for having me. Yeah. This has been awesome.
[00:49:49] Speaker B: Where can people follow you on your adventures?
[00:49:53] Speaker C: Oh, let's see. Well, you can always see what I'm up to on Nina Lanza dot com. But I'm mostly now, if you're thinking about day to day stuff, I'm on the gram. I am Vermillion planet on Instagram and I have spelled vermilion with two Ls as opposed to one L.
Both spellings are apparently correct. I went down a deep rabbit hole to figure out how best to spell it, but because it sounds like million, I decided to to keep that substring in there. So yeah, amazing.
[00:50:28] Speaker B: I love it.
Well, thank you so much for joining me. And until next time, everybody stay weird.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: Thank you again for tuning in, everybody. Be sure to watch Weird World Adventures on Amazon prime today and visit Mallory's Adventures for more M A L O R I E S adventures dot com.
